Actually, Jesus’ star was also claimed to have been in the east… and the wise men supposedly came from the east… which makes absolutely no sense. Did they walk away from the star?
At the time I suspect that they thought the star was much closer to the wise men – that it rose east of Bethlehem but slightly west of the wise men and then moved ahead of them to guide them in.
These never turn out to be quite as neat and tidy as this makes out, even if the point is valid. I’d like to look into when I have time, I’ll post my findings, unless someone beats me to it. I’m especially curious about the Lazarus/ El-Azur-us part, very curious indeed.
Does Horus look like a Tapir climbing over a rock to anyone else?
Well, it does fucking now.
I have pointed out these comparisons of the jesus myth to those of Horus, Attis, and Mithra many times. Invariably, the christians claim they are either not true (even with supporting references given) or that there were “false gods” or prophesies that were fulfilled by the coming of jesus.
There is simply no lie, no myth, no willful ignorance too great for a christian not to use it.
> There is simply no lie, no myth, no willful ignorance
> too great for a christian not to use it.
As an atheist, I only wish that weren’t true of so many of us as well.
Tell me, exactly what lie, myth, or willful ignorance have I used? What have I posted that is not true> Please provide proof.
Well I’m gonna have to go with the fact that you are referencing memes to make a point about something so much more detailed in precise. But I guess who gives a shit about credibility anymore? Why not just parrot google results and act like you know what you’re talking about. I don’t care the label or beliefs, stupid is still stupid. And will forever be.
Like all intellectual cowards, you avoid my question and try to change the subject. What have I posted that is not true?
You think religion has credibility? It is nothing more than lies and myths.
If I don’t know what I’m talking about, prove it. That’s an invitation to demonstrate your superior knowledge.
I am sure you know far more about stupid than I do. Your posts prove it.
Please stop being an intellectual and ethical coward and prove your assertions.
I’m sorry, your big words totally threw me off. Hurrrrr.
I am not surprised. But please do not despair. Education is the cure for ignorance. But you first must want to learn. Ordinary ignorance can be cured. Willful ignorance is almost impossible to fix. When willful ignorance is the result of religious beliefs, the case is almost hopeless.
You DO realize that you’re completely arrogant right? Don’t try to prove me wrong, it’s obvious either way. :]
If telling the truth is arrogant, I plead guilty. If being honest is wrong, then I am wrong. :)
K. Glad you realize it then! :D
One thing I see in my favor. Many times I have invited anyone to prove anything I post is wrong. My thinking is, that’s how we learn and grow. When people provide you with facts showing where you were in error. Otherwise, we might rarely learn anything new.
Very few have even attempted to prove me wrong. When I consider it, I am certain I have caught more of my own errors than other people have. No one can be 100% right all of the time, so I am not loosing any sleep over it.
He never said anything about you personally being at fault. As an agnostic, I see a lot of contradicting arguments and hypocrisy from both sides, and from those in the middle. It’s just the way that it works. Blaming Christians or theists solely for ignorance is itself ignorant.
I never blame anyone for being simply ignorant. That may not be their fault. Being willfully ignorant and denying obvious facts is a much different story.
Tell me, exactly what have I posted that is not true? I invite corrections with proof. That’s how we learn and grow and avoid willful ignorance. Be advised, dislike or denial is not proof.
Pretty sure he was referring to the fact that as atheists, we use other mythological stories to say that Christians/theists are wrong. Using a lie to prove a lie is a lie. The proof of that is the original meme here and the four you posted.. And the countless more spread across the internet like a disease .
What lie? Jesus was based upon the other mythological figures. No one has said they were real. That is not using a lie to prove a lie.
The amazing ignorance displayed on the internet, including yours, is the problem. I invite you to prove anything I have posted is not true. If you do it, I will thank you. That’s how we learn and grow.
There are certainly some parallels between various mythical figures.
However the Horus – Christ stuff seems to be pure invention.
There are lengthy and thorough refutations of this stuff – some from a christian perspective but they actually cite sources.
The similarities between various god figures might be from copying/inheritance – or it might stem from the fact that all humans from all cultures have the same kinds of concerns – birth, death, war, love, hate…and live on the same earth, under the same Sun and sky
Yes, there are parallels between the figures. Why do yo say that it “seems to be pure invention?” DO you have any evidence of that? You can look it up with any search engine and find that it is not.
What is pure invention is the jesus myth. Did you know that is not a single contemporary account of any jesus? Here are a few things to consider.
As stated by Dr. Bart Ehrman, Professor of religious studies at the University of North Caroline, Chapel Hill, NC said, “In the entire first Christian century, Jesus is not mentioned by a single Greek or Roman scholar, politician, philosopher, or poet. His name never appears in a single inscription, and it is never found in a single piece of private correspondence. Zero! Zip references!”
In the case of the historical Jesus, there is not one contemporary record of his existence. The Romans, who otherwise kept very good records never mentioned a figure who was supposed to be socially, politically, and spiritually so significant as well as publicly performing many miracles; then was executed after a very public trial.
Not until the Gospel of Mark, written from 40 to over 100 years after the supposed crucifixion, (depending upon which biblical scholar you choose to believe) is there any mention of Jesus. If we look at the fables of Horus, Attis, and Mithra, we see amazing similarities. Born in low circumstances on December 25, 12 followers, executed at an early age, son of a god, the list goes on. It would appear that the early church, in need of a powerful central figure, “borrowed” from earlier myths to create a rallying point for their religion.
A Few Noticeable Events in the Life of Jesus
Herod’s slaughter of all the baby boys in Bethlehem.
Jesus’ triumphant entry in Jerusalem, where the entire town welcomes him as their king.
Jesus casting out the greedy moneychangers. (in an area about the size of 34 football fields)
Two earthquakes his Jerusalem.
Supernatural darkness covers “all the land” for hours.
The Sacred Temple curtain tears from top to bottom.
All the dead holy men in the cemetery come out of their graves and wander Jerusalem, “appearing to many.”
And yet, contemporary historians in the time of Jesus didn’t write about any of this.
Christianity was founded upon lies and has been lying from then until this day.
Actually, there are many contemporary accounts of Jesus. Though Flavius Josephus works that mention Jesus are only a secondary account of Jesus, he obtained them from primary witnesses. Though you may be more accurate in claiming that Jesus is made no mention to by any Greeks or Romans, you would be wrong in saying that he is made no mention at all. There are quite a few records by Jewish leaders that mention Jesus.
A Swedish scholar and professor at Lund University by the name of T. N. D. Mettinger wrote that the nearly universal consensus among all modern scholars is that there were no dying and rising gods that preceded Christianity. They all post-dated the first century.
Also, as far as the whole story of Horus, a large portion of it is incorrectly portrayed in this chart. For example: his birth. Yes Horus was born of Isis. No she was not a virgin. Osiris was gathered back together after being destroyed and Horus was born from Isis through normal procreative process.
I am currently have no idea what I believe about the existence or benevolence of God. I ponder this concept daily, and I still am not certain about my beliefs. However, the existence of Jesus is not up for debate. There is a vast array of substantiating evidence to support the fact that he lived. If you don’t like God, that’s fine. I’m not sure I like the concept of him either. But one’s propensity to like or dislike God does not validate stupidity or ignorance. Take claim to your opinion about God, but do not take claim to ignorance.
Wrong again. Josephus was not even born until 36 or 37 CE. He probably didn’t start his writing for a decade or two after that.
Name a single contemporary account of any jesus. You claim there are, but decline to give any citations.
I gave evidence and you “quote” one person without a single citation.
The existence of jesus certainly is not up for debate. He didn’t exist and neither you nor anyone else has ever produced any verifiable evidence that he did.
How can I “not like god”" That’s the typical theist BS. “Why do you hate god?” How can you hate something that does not and never has existed? Do you think environmentalists hate Paul Bunyan for cutting down all of those trees?
I do not take claim to igno0rance but I do take the tie to point it out in others, especially when it is willful ignorance.
I have proved my points with verifiable evidence. You have done nothing. But here’s an open invitation. Prove anything I have posted is not true. Remember, dislike or disbelief is not proof. Verifiable evidence is. I have often said, given undeniable evidence, I would change my position on anything, including religion. What would it take to change yours? Belief without proof is often comforting and far easier than thinking. But it is not rational.
I may be wrong but I seem to recall that the Josephus mention of Jesus was acknowledged to be a forgery by both secular and theist scholars over a hundred years ago
The claim that someone hates God is akin to that of hating Santa, it is laughable
Now that you mention it, I seem to recall having heard the same thing. I don’t remember seeing any hard evidence, though.
Nothing will prevent theists from continuing to spread the lie, though. I have had to respond to it many times. As here, after I point out the obvious fallacy, the perpetrators disappear, Probably to go somewhere and crow, “Victory in the name of christ!” After all, what’s one more lie in two thousand years of them?
“A Swedish scholar and professor at Lund University by the name of T. N.
D. Mettinger wrote that the nearly universal consensus among all modern
scholars is that there were no dying and rising gods that preceded
Christianity. They all post-dated the first century.”
That’s not true. John Barleycorn and pagan & neolithic rebirth rituals & monuments all predate 1AD. Some debate about the tumuli and cursus where they buried their dead which quite often mimic genitalia or breasts in form as being a rebirth myth. Also the whole sun/equinox thing, from stone circles, tombs, Newgrange even the egyptians did that with Abu Simpel. Wheel of the year, celtic. Eostre. The idea of winter and summer being gods or goddesses like wheat are cut down and reborn. Williow, ash and yew being revered – which is why Yew trees are in many church yards – because the latter lives a very long time and the first two will sprout again when planted.
Indeed Isis ressurecting Osiris and I suspect Dionysus did something similar too.
Go read ‘The Golden Bough’.
This is Zeitgeist propaganda.
Wait, sorry. You’re an idiot.
This list is hooey.
Isis a virgin? Really?
In the story I know, a grieving Isis uses her magic (and
feminine charm!) to get the dead god Osiris to “rise to the occasion”
and impregnate her with his seed – she then gives birth to their son
Horus who goes on to avenge his fathers murder.
How you go from “sexy grieving widow” to “virgin” is beyond me.
All the other parallels listed are recent inventions – there are no ancient sources for these claims.
I suggest you check your “sources” and prove your claims. Religion is hooey. That I can prove and have done so many times.
This ridiculous list gets posted on this website and you are asking for the apposing side to provide ‘sources’ haha, what a joke. FYI, all this hogwash comes from Gerald Massey
I ask you any anyone else. Prove anything that is not true. Prove your claims. If you don’t, you’re admitting you are a liar. But most christians are liars, fools, or hypocrites. Often, they are all three at the same time.
Prove any of it is not true, or STFU.
How about we stop speaking in polarized platitudes and declare both the list and religion “hooey”, because both (This seems to be grabbed from Zeitgeist, which is fairly well known to have factual inaccuracies out the wazoo, particularly in this portion of the film which is called upon) have some serious issues with either a lacking of empirical evidence for claims or abuse of actual empirical evidence to justify other claims. Hm, guys? Think you can handle that?
Maybe both are wrong, and maybe you don’t need to always be standing as a knight in shining armor on some extant pedestal with a physical or historical allegory; you can do just fine standing here on the ground and calling on universal principles like the scientific method and/or classical logic like the rest of us.
I’m atheist, but a little fact checking wouldn’t hurt. Some similarities are true and most are not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus).There’s no need to exaggerate: christianity is absurd enough by itself!
yeah, i’m on board with the idea that newer myths appropriate ideas from older myths, but for these two characters to have so perfectly identical stories? i’m as skeptical as horus looks in that picture.
Can anyone provide any academic source for any (preferably all) of these facts about Horus?
Can you provide an academic source for Jesus? Didn’t think so.
I agree about the dangers of religion, but you haven’t cited any sources either. We can’t fight 2,000 years of myth with unsupported information. Your constant complaint that others prove you wrong is not unlike the response of a religious zealot. Hell most of the commentors are not religious, but very few agree with your methods.
Get over it. This is basic knowledge,
You know, this is what I really hate about my fellow Atheists. Just because you don’t believe in something, you don’t have to mock it. For anyone’s information there actually are only two similarities between Jesus and Horus. Besides that, have you ever thought about how a Christian would feel if they saw this? The Egyptian gods are dead. You can’t blame them for feeling persecuted. Let them believe what they choose. You make fun of them for believing in god, and they think you’re lost. This isn’t a healthy cycle.
Mock and question everything. Stop being a drama queen.
all gods die when the last person that believes in them dies
what about Dionysus and Zoroaster ?
All these comparisons were made my ‘Gerald Massey’ who is a discredited ‘historian’.
Look at ANY peer reviewed historian and you will see there is absolutely no foundation in any of these claims.
omg?! its like the holy’s took egyptian ideology, an turned it christian. i wonder why? control? maybe…maybe
So, let me first say that I am an agnostic, and it’s shameful to put up a comic ridiculing the faith (being absolute nonsense as it is, but still) when your information is inaccurate.
“The documentary movie Religulous (2008) and the book The Christ Conspiracy claim that Horus was born of a virgin through an ‘immaculate conception.’ Egyptian texts demonstrate that Horus’ mother was the goddess Isis, and not a human virgin. Horus was conceived when Isis resurrected the dismembered god Osiris and had intercourse with him, which precludes the idea of virginity, and certainly parthenogenesis.”
This is funny, and I’ve seen it before, but don’t exaggerate or risk looking like you’re full of nonsense yourself. :/
This is based on the writings of Gerald Massey, a 19th century Egyptologist. His book is fairly non-sensical, and has been dismissed as such by a number of prominent, main stream scholars.
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